Currently reading: This Side of Paradise by F. Scott Fitzgerald
I’m aware what the rules are
But you know that I will run
You know that I will follow you
Over silbury hill
Through the solar field
You know that I will follow you
it’s official
i have been sucked into the eighth doctor era and there is no resurfacing
yes
mashiere[2] But that’s just me whining from a problem all S Holmes shows have. My question is do you like the Adler/Holmes romance? In all media? Or just Elementary? Or do you not like the romance, but there’s something about Adler that makes up for it? I’m asking because I want to like Elem. but Holmes cannon love makes me slightly pissy. But maybe I’m looking at it wrong? An insider’s opinion would be nice. :)
I personally don’t mind Holmes/Adler romance when it’s done well. I didn’t like it in the BBC version because of the way it was treated. I enjoyed the romance in Elementary for what it was worth and for the brief time that we got to see it (I mean, I thought they were cute), and I was glad it was mutual and not just Adler swooning over Holmes… she had control in the relationship. But I was also very glad that it wasn’t something that is going to last because I’m simply not invested in Holmes/Adler the way I am with the Holmes and Watson friendship. I’m not like ~into~ Holmes/Adler but I’m not against it for a short time.
I also didn’t feel that Adler/Moriarty fell into a stereotype, possibly because she was quite developed. I mean, we knew things about her that didn’t pertain to Holmes, like her painting. Other women in the show have been portrayed as sexual, but not evil as well.
As for straying from canon, tbh I think that’s personal preference. It doesn’t really bother me that much because lbr Conan Doyle didn’t give a shit about Holmes after a certain point. I love the canon references in the show, but it is an adaptation; it’s not meant to be like Granada Holmes.
And I don’t think that Adler/Moriarty really defeated him with love/sex… I mean… maybe. But what I took away as her grand triumph was her ability to manipulate this whole web of crimes, to trick him into believing she was someone she was not (not just through love/sex but through her accent, through backstory, etc), and to just completely be in charge and control of a series of murders, crimes, and the men that worked for her. She did outwit Holmes because he didn’t figure out she was Moriarty. The closest he got was to thinking she was working for him but holy shit her speech at the end with all that gaslighting that was going on… she very nearly talked him out of it. That’s smarts. And let’s not forget that she did get away with murder and getting a shit load of money even after Holmes knew who she was… it was only Joan who could defeat her.
Also, I just added to the meta, so maybe you’d be interested in the addition! :]
Ok I was writing a meta on Irene Adler in varying adaptations but Tumblr’s a dick and deleted my post so here’s some bullet points of my argument:
- Elementary!Adler had a longer withstanding triumph over Holmes than BBC!Adler.
- E!Adler at no point needed to be [actually] saved or rescued.
- E!Adler was not governed by Moriarty… she wasMoriarty.
- BBC!Adler labeled herself a lesbian and lost because of her affections for Holmes. Likewise, E!Adler also lost because she loved Holmes, but, in this instance, the feeling was mutual.
- More importantly, no manbeat E!Adler. Sherlock Holmes did not figure E!Adler out. He judgement was also clouded by love.Watson, a woman, was the one who beat Adler.
Additionally, there are some arguments out there that I’ve seen that are displeased with Elementary because they’ve made Alder a villain, which she was not in the canon. However, in my personal opinion, because Adler is one of the few developed women in the canon, it is necessary in any adaptation like Elementary, BBC, or the films to expand upon her character. I think, especially in terms of television, it is important to add canon characters but if the story had been directly similar to the canon, she would be a one-off character. I believe that E!Adler/Moriarty will return.
And one more thing… Women who are intelligent or sexual are often portrayed as villains. However, in Elementary, I think a lot of that is fixed by Watsonbeing the one who solves her. Watson may not quite be at the same level of intelligence as Holmes or “Adler,” but she is damnsmart; she was a surgeon and still can spit out a shit ton of science and she understands people in a way that Holmes and Adler cannot.
Elementary is certainly not perfect. But I also do not think it is fair to equalize Alder’s role in this show with previous versions, as the circumstances in which she is villainized and beaten are wildly different.
When a woman is portrayed as smart, sexy, and in love with the hero, that canbe executed as male fantasy. It can also be done in a more complex, realistic sense that I think Elementary achieved. Like I said, it’s not perfect. There may be some issues there. But it’s a massive step forward.
Another thing— I forget where I read it or who wrote it but I thought it was really interesting and a good insight:
Someone commented on Sherlock’s use of the term “the woman.” This person wrote about, in his mind, it is a term of endearment and superiority to all other women.
But what happens is that Woman is destroyed. Not physically, of course, but the idea of “the Woman” is ripped from his mind when he realizes that Irene is Moriarty.
So much of Elementary focuses on the utter variety of women there are in the world… we have a POC protagonist whose journey is finding a job she loves, a trans* woman (who is a major canon character and who will likely return) who is complex and lovely, we’ve had a non-stereotypical asian mother, sisters, wives, widows, police officers, scientists, teenagers who are trying to just figure it all out… and all women.
Canon Sherlock Holmes could be an asshat about women at times. He may have been polite to them and treated them with respect, but he did NOT think they could be mentally superior to him. I love canon Holmes, but he needed people like canon Irene or Elementary’s Joan to put him in his place (remember the period line that Joan rebutted, call it misogyny?”)
So, what Elementary does is deconstructs Sherlocks “Woman.”
Instead of “the Woman,” with Joan’s help, it becomes women, all of whom have their own flaws and virtues to add to the table.
stoprobbers replied to your post: Ok I was writing a meta on Irene Adler in varying…
io9 published a piece on elementary today that touches on the things apparently in your meta (i never saw it in full so i’m going on the bullets). you might enjoy it! io9.com/element…
Ooh thank you for the link! If anyone else is interested take a read: http://io9.com/elementary-demonstrates-the-right-way-to-update-a-class-509009246
Ok I was writing a meta on Irene Adler in varying adaptations but Tumblr’s a dick and deleted my post so here’s some bullet points of my argument:
Additionally, there are some arguments out there that I’ve seen that are displeased with Elementary because they’ve made Alder a villain, which she was not in the canon. However, in my personal opinion, because Adler is one of the few developed women in the canon, it is necessary in any adaptation like Elementary, BBC, or the films to expand upon her character. I think, especially in terms of television, it is important to add canon characters but if the story had been directly similar to the canon, she would be a one-off character. I believe that E!Adler/Moriarty will return.
And one more thing… Women who are intelligent or sexual are often portrayed as villains. However, in Elementary, I think a lot of that is fixed by Watson being the one who solves her. Watson may not quite be at the same level of intelligence as Holmes or “Adler,” but she is damn smart; she was a surgeon and still can spit out a shit ton of science and she understands people in a way that Holmes and Adler cannot.
Elementary is certainly not perfect. But I also do not think it is fair to equalize Alder’s role in this show with previous versions, as the circumstances in which she is villainized and beaten are wildly different.
When a woman is portrayed as smart, sexy, and in love with the hero, that can be executed as male fantasy. It can also be done in a more complex, realistic sense that I think Elementary achieved. Like I said, it’s not perfect. There may be some issues there. But it’s a massive step forward.
If I loved you less, I might be able to talk about it more.
stealatimelordYes please. What intrigues me the most about Eight being the Time War!Doctor is that he is, I think, the most romantic/idealistic Doctor and his love for humanity and the world is completely and totally worn on his sleeve. And what I’ve always been interested in is to see how that sweet man transformed into the damaged one we see in S1. What happened between exactly?
And if you listen to some of Eight’s audiobooks (I’ve just started) you can hear in some of his later stuff, a much darker Doctor than as the one he began.
(lol be warned… my fic is sorta old so it’s probably -meh-)
stealatimelordAw, thank you, dear! That’s very sweet.
I just really want Eight and Time War stuff to be filmed. Like can you imagine… seeing children Time Lords/Ladies regenerating in the street? Like damn, that’d be the realest shit ever.
Plus, Eight is just so lovable.
on one hand i love how obscure the time war is, because it leaves it all to the imagination but also…
i want a special not written by moffat that takes place towards the end of eight’s regeneration, when he realizes that he has to fight in the time war.
it would start out with eight on earth, then leaving it and witnessing the death of a child by a dalek, which spurs his involvement in the war. we see him shed his 19th century-style garb slowly through the first 15-20 minutes so that by the first third of the 90 minute special, he is in his leather jacket and stubble.
and there’s politics and riots and dalek remains in the streets and warfare and time lord clothes and massive red fields and silver leaves shivering, the shining world of the seven systems decaying and the doctor is horrified.
we watch his sanity slowly lessen, his rage amplify to the point where he becomes like the eye of the hurricane; he is calm and subdued and he knows what he has to do.
and he thinks that he’s going to lose his life in the war, that he’ll be sacrificing himself and he must because of the horrible atrocity he’s about to commit (meanwhile, we as viewers, know he survives). and he does it… the species are wiped out, TARDISes exploding, time lords and daleks burning. until there is nothing, nothing at all.
until we see our beloved TARDIS, stuck in a police box shape as usual, singed and floating, smoking rolling off her, but surviving nevertheless. and inside is the doctor, unconscious and visibly injured. he wakes, confused, until he recollects himself and realizes what he did. he stumbles to the console, then to the ship’s doors, which he flings open and sees nothing… gallifrey is gone, his people, his family, their history. what has he done?
but he only has seconds to process this. he is thrown back by his injuries, which are quickly becoming more and more unbearable, and soon he realizes he is fatally wounded. his hands start to glow gold, but he holds the regeneration off, as painful as it looks.
the doctor looks out the doors again, immeasurably sad, and we the viewers realize that he does not want to regenerate… he wants to die for good for the sins he has committed. it is only fair after all, right?
but something happens in those last moments… maybe the TARDIS gives him a jolt, a slap on the hand to say how dare you and you aren’t leaving me here alone.
he loses control of the regenerative power and, collapsing, he bursts gold so bright and forceful that the screen is clouded, that we see nothing but light.
it slowly fades, the gold still pulsating at the center of the screen, until it completely disappears to reveal the ninth doctor, on his hands and knees, breathing heavily.
and that is where he begins, the doctor born in battle.
